So, this was the question:
I have a question…is this rape?
Girl goes to guy’s house with a bunch of friends. Girl and guy are dating. Friends leave for a minute and girl and guy end up making out on his bed. Girl is on her period and does NOT want to have sex, doesn’t let the petting go below the waist. Guy wants to have sex and pushes the issue. Girl says no, and tries to stop him but doesn’t fight or scream. Guy ends up taking off girl’s pants and removing her tampon and they have sex. At no time did the girl say yes, but she was in his room and she was making out with him and she didn’t punch, bite, or otherwise fight, she just said no repeatedly and told him to stop.
Rape? or remorse?
Some of those commenting were offended that the question was even asked because the answer was so obvious. After reading the comments it was clear that the situation was autobiographical and the person describing the situation was the person who was raped. I’m amazed at her courage and she continued to ask very poignant questions within the comments here.
This is how Men’s Rights News responded:
passive resistance is a tough area. if she really meant no, she should have fought harder or left the room. he should have respected her wishes, but women’s moods do not always match what they say.
there is a very large difference between “blame the victim” and “victim needs to take responsibility for their actions and surroundings”. this is the same bullshit mentality as people who try to pose their kids with wild animals for pictures then wonder why the animal attacked. they claim “victim” and the animal is killed.
If it is a potential dangerous situation – DONT GO THERE! – then you wont have to worry about saying no or fighting someone off.
In [the author of the OP]’s case (no offense), if you didn’t want sex and were on your period, why did you initiate foreplay? to see how far you could go? to see how far he would go? to frustrate him? to test him? to appease yourself?
yes, some women get raped in innocent situations, and that is horrendous – but some women create the situation, then wonder what happened. does that make rape okay? of course not, but it makes it avoidable. is he responsible for his actions? yes. AND SO ARE YOU.
So, among a great many other things, this is one of my responses:
“this is the same bullshit mentality as people who try to pose their kids with wild animals for pictures then wonder why the animal attacked.”
Sorry – men are NOT wild animals and women should NOT be forced to act like they are. I bet you think that the explanation of “Schrodinger’s Rapist” is an insult to men; yet you DEMAND that women live their lives as if every man they meet or have a relationship with is a rapist?!
People are raped by PEOPLE THEY KNOW – friends – those who have gained their trust enough to get them alone.
What the HELL do you expect from us?
What? Never make out with someone unless you want sex? Never drink? Never allow yourself to be alone with someone you don’t want to have sex with?
Do you not see the bizarre mixed message you are giving?
THAT is what I expect from decent human beings.
What you are saying to [the author of the OP] is offensive and you know it is. “No offense”?!
How about – Why did her rapist think that was okay? Why didn’t he take “no” for an answer? What is wrong with him that he didn’t respect her basic bodily autonomy as a fellow human being? Why would you put responsibility on HER for what HE did? Why are you bolstering his CRIMINAL and IMMORAL level of self-entitlement to another person’s body?
Then Men’s Rights News went off some crazy deep end:
what the HELL do you expect from US?
to read your minds? to take endless amounts of teasing just to hear NO at the critical moment? to spend endless amounts of money so you can jilt us? to guess your REAL intentions? to guess when no means no and when no means YES, I want you to act like you can’t control yourself? to protect you from all threats with no thought for our own safety, and no appreciation or compassion or consideration? to walk around with our dick in our hand waiting for you to give the magic word?
what we expect from decent human beings is to be considerate and to take responsibility for your actions. ALL of your actions, including the ones you shouldnt take or are embarrassed about afterward.
we counter ‘schroedingers rapist’ with ‘schroedingers feminist’ – you want to be innocent but not a victim. you want to be in control but not take control. you want rights but not responsibilities.
How about – Why didnt SHE fight back? or leave the room? or initiate foreplay with no intention of continuing? you wanna talk about RAPE? lets talk about emotional rape! lets talk about physiological rape! lets talk about financial rape! or judicial rape!
To be extremely fair, Men’s Rights News also said that what was done to [the author of the OP] was “wrong”:
is what happened to you wrong? yes. was it avoidable? yes.
I bet you can guess who Men’s Rights News is blaming for not “avoiding” the rape.
The conversation then steered predictably but inexplicably into the issue of false accusations of rape. Men’s Rights News quoted me in his response:
wow – you should run for office – complete politics – “dont think that false accusation is a non-issue, but doesn’t believe in victim-blaming”. cant have it both ways [M.A. Melby] – there is no false-accusation without blaming the victim
Now, if you have read this far and you’re kind of skimming through just shaking your head – please read what he wrote one more time. Men’s Rights News is stating that protecting the falsely accused is synonymous with blaming victims.
I think my head exploded, but this is what I actually ended up typing:
In the case of a false accusation, the victim is the person who is falsely accused.
What you are doing is blaming the person who has actually been a victim of rape for “getting into the situation” in the first place. You used children being mauled by wild animals as an analogy to women being raped by men.
You can stand up for those falsely accused without victim-blaming actual victims. You can look into the research that has been conducted on false rape accusations and find out what motivates those people to make those accusations.
HINT: “I regretted it in the morning” is not high on the list. When it happens it generally happens because the person was actually raped and is frightened of her attacker so she tags the wrong person, or she is experiencing negative consequences for being sexually active (such as unplanned pregnancy, STD, etc) and needs an alibi and says she was raped but does not make an accusation of a specific person. When pressed by others to give more detail or tag someone as the rapist; they do so out of a need to cover up their lie. And yes – there are a few people out there who accuse out of anger or spite and to get back at someone.
This happens. This happens with other crime as well. People falsely accuse other people of things. When it is sexual misconduct the stakes are high.
However, it becomes bitingly obvious that some people (like you Men’s Rights News) see the false accusation rate as extremely high because you have practically re-defined rape out of existence. For you, in the absence of non-sexual battery there is no rape.
Heck, you take it to some bizarre extreme where if a victim is unsuccessful at escaping (walking out of the room) or being violent toward his or her attacker – that person is sending “mixed signals”.
Oh – and if someone doesn’t put-out when you have spent money on her, or attention on her, or has done other sexual things with you – YOU are a victim of HER.
That is NOT okay.
Don’t pull good work done by organizations like the Innocence Project through the mud by pretending this is about “false accusations”.
You’ve made it clear that FOR YOU – it’s about REAL accusations that you choose to disbelieve even when the facts are not in dispute. It’s about blaming women for being raped instead of men for raping. To you, those rapists are innocent people being falsely accused of rape – when all they did was not take “no” for an answer because that isn’t the answer they wanted; or that making-out is somehow consent for sex; or perhaps they had sex with that one passed out girl that should have known better than to pass out around a bunch of “wild animals” that can’t possibly be expected not to RAPE someone if they have the opportunity.
Thinking the way you appear to think about these things – IS rape culture. Feminists didn’t just make that all up. If you disbelieve, just look in a mirror.
PS: Some of the conversation has been documented here.